“The Hail Mary” Discussion Post – Come Discuss With Us! *SPOILER WARNING*   35 comments

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What did you guys think of the episode? What was your favorite scene? We’d love to hear from you guys. Let us know in the comments!

Since we try to keep our twitter and Facebook spoiler free for those who haven’t seen the episode yet, we created a post where people can discuss the new episode. So feel free to discuss away in the comments!

***For those who haven’t seen the episode the comments will contain spoilers***

Posted June 25, 2016 by in Outlander

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35 responses to ““The Hail Mary” Discussion Post – Come Discuss With Us! *SPOILER WARNING*

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  1. Tobias Menzies…BJR and the death of his brother. Three emotions crossed his face in a matter of seconds….love, grief, anger. This man is a whirlwind of an actor. Riveting and powerful. One of the best episodes!

    • He does have a very expressive face. What did you think about him pounding on Alex’s body? And why does he always goad Claire about Jamie? I don’t understand that one. I understand the changes that have to be made but I’m not a big fan of them.

      • He goads her because he’s jealous of her. That’s in the book, too. Not the pounding but it works very well in the show.

        • The chest pounding really freaked me out the first time I watched it. However, having now read a bit of what Tobias and company have to say about its genesis, I certainly understand the choice better. Whatever his feeling for Alex, this is just how BJR is wired when it comes to dealing with strong emotion.

  2. I liked it! I enjoy most everything about the script writing, the actors etc. I know what’s coming… I am glad they kept the JBR scene in with his brother.. and the marriage. Graham was AMAZING! I had all the emotions one can feel in this hour… 213 is coming, I am ready… but then again I’m not.

  3. I LOVED the scene with Dougal, Colum and Jamie letting know Jamie would foster Amish! Superb!
    Hated the scene of BJR pounding his brothers dead body. Never happened in book …. for good reason. BJR adored his brother. Not sick twisted love but eally true sibling love. He would never pound his hrother in violence.

  4. Quite a bit of territory was covered in the hour. I could not understand why they had John beat his dead brother! All in all though I was relieved about this episode. It is like the calm before the storm next week.😭

  5. I thought it was a good adaptation that got us to the necessary important plot points and resolutions with a few extra tidbits thrown in.

    1) I liked the BJR/Alex and Colum/Dougal brotherly relationships side by side. You see that BJR has one bright light in his life, Alex and Alex loves him unconditionally because he has seen his tenderness. Dougal and Colum have a love/hate relationship that is complex. I kind of felt sorry for Dougal.

    2) I liked that Colum made his peace with Claire and told her about Geillis and Dougal’s son being placed with William MacKenzie. Necessary info for the finale. I also liked that he wanted Jamie to be Hamish’s guardian and his reasons for it. That was not in the book.

    3) I preferred this version of the BJR/Alex/Mary story with Murtagh being the witness and not Jamie. It made more sense for Jamie to be tending to military matters and having Murtagh protecting Claire. It also avoided that entire fight that was in the book. I thought it more realistic that there was an actual minister to perform the marriage ceremony instead of Alex being a cleric and performing the marriage himself. I choose to view BJR’s banging on Alex’s chest as an angry and desperate attempt at getting his heart to beat again. The only light in BJR’s world has gone out. He is angry at the world and the injustice of it all. Nice to have Murtagh volunteer to marry Mary which is not in the book. I will miss Duncan Lacroix.

    4) I hate Sullivan and that mealy mouthed Prince. Idiots got lost in the dark. I’m with Murtagh, they should have slit the Prince’s throat while they had the chance. “Mark Me” the two idiots get away Scot Free ( pun intended) with Charlie disguised as the woman he is.

  6. Tobias is such a good actor. Loved colum dougal amd jamie conversation. Jamie would be my pick for clan leader but i felt so bad for dougal. Actually cried when he was denied his closure. I know whats coming and not sure i am ready. I dont want to lose Murtaugh. I love that character

  7. Loved this episode. Of course I love Jamie and Claire but I also enjoy Murtagh and hope so much that he doesn’t get killed in Culloden. I am reading the books and I think Murtagh would make a great choice for the husband of Jamie’s Aunt in North Carolina. I know that would take a lot of changing but I hate the thoughts of Murtagh leaving the show. I enjoyed Clair getting the best of BJR in the pub causing him to change his mind and go along with the wedding.

    • That’s what I’ve thought. I’m only just starting book six so I’m not sure if Ducan proves to be a bigger character in the coming books, but if not, I’d be OK with Murtagh replacing Duncan… nothing at ALL against Duncan, I just LOVE TV Murtagh so very much!!

  8. Dugal’s monologue was heart wrenching. So hard for men to tell each other how they feel. In the end, family is family…

  9. Liked the episide and the changes. My draw dropped at the BJR and Jamie as guardian part.

  10. Didn’t mind most of the changes although some parts were a bit surprising, I guess there will be a reason or explanation in the following episodes. I really didn’t like Alex being beaten up after his death, found that very disturbing and uncalled for.
    Incredible acting all round, as always, but Graham was brilliant, you’ve got to love Dougal!

  11. Great acting, as usual, but kind of bored with the war stuff and not feeling the epic love that will bind Jaime and Claire through 20 years of separation. Wondering why writers had Claire break up Mary and Alex if she was going to help them in the end?

    • Absolutely with you on that one, Robyn.

    • Claire tried to discourage him because she thought Jack Randall was Frank’s ancestor, didn’t want Alex to jeopardise that. Turns out Alex was the biological ancestor but Mary needed the marriage to protect the Randall child/lineage.

  12. This episode could have been called, “A Tale of Four Brothers.” Though the issue of Jamie trying to avoid Culloden was sprinkled in, it was more about tying up the loose ends regarding the Randall’s and the Mackenzie brothers. Felt bad for all of them, especially Colum!
    28 episodes so far, and we’ve learned that all the good intentions in the world can’t change the past. Claire has finally figured it out at last. Oh well, at least Frank is safe!
    There wasn’t too many choices for favorite scene…it was so depressing. I’d have to give a thumbs up for Murtagh’s willingness to marry Mary Hawkins to keep her away from BJR. I’m going to miss him so much!!
    After Bonnie Prince Charles’ big speech in episode 211 about being buried in an unmarked grave rather than retreating from London, he certainly turned tail pretty fast in this episode, leaving half his troops behind. What a scumbag!!
    No wonder the Jacobites lost the war!
    This episode left a lump in my throat that won’t be relieved until Voyager starts next year! I don’t know how I’m going to be able to watch Episode 213 on July 9th. Just watching the preview has me grabbing the Kleenex! It’s going to be be the worst 90 minutes of my life, excluding Wentworth Prison. Please let there be something for the Outlander family to hold on to at the end of the season finale!!
    Kudos to Anne Kenney and Ira Steven Behr for ripping our hearts out, again!

  13. I also loved the brother dynamics, It made both BJR and Dougle seem a bit, a tiny bit, more human. However, BJR being the sadist, he is, just had to twist the knife, so to speak, when he was referring to the time in Wentworth Prison torturing Jamie. In that scene he was the truly evil man that he has become or was from birth.

    On the other hand, Dougle was trying to get the upper hand on Jamie again with Colum but it did not work, again. Then Colum so peacefully died it did break the heart that Dougle couldn’t basically mend fences.

    Stupid, Stupid Prince, really was he so dumb as to get turned around in the dark? Drinking I guess and not a real solider either. I would have gone with what men they had, that might have changed the outcome, it might have gotten them killed sooner.

    A good story all around!

  14. While I liked some it… some didn’t sit well. (and mostly those were changes from the book) I didn’t care for Colum naming Jamie as guardian…and I didn’t like the fact that show implied he took what Claire gave him and committed suicide. Not to be one of those “in the books” folks… but I I believed he died on his own before Claire could give it to him or he chose not to take it. I found that much more in keeping with the kind of man Colum was despite how much pain he was in. I did like the scene with Dougal at the deathbed.

    I really, really, really disliked BJR womping on Alex after he died. It was bizarre… and even though I read somewhere else that happens occasionally when loved ones die, I thought it just wrong and disturbing (which maybe is what they were going for?) I was OK with Murtaugh being there as a witness instead of Jamie. I actually preferred it that way.

    Thought the whole part of tromping through the woods at night for a sneak attack was contrived and sounds like something they felt they had to come up with in the writers room for this episode so it would be long enough for them to not have to have any thing from the finale in here. It’s like they go “OK we know the story has to end up here… and we don’t have enough time to do the book justice… so what can we come up with that will tie up all our plot holes and get us to the end”

    There was lots of wonderful acting and lots of beautiful sets….I just didn’t care for some of the choices they’ve made with the story.

    And only 1 “Mark me”!!

    There is a lot of story that has to happen in the next 90 minutes of show and I really doubt that they are going to be able to cover it … which makes me wonder what will they cut from the story? What will they leave for the beginning of next season? . I will say I have enjoyed the return to Scotland for the 2nd half

  15. I loved this chapter. It condensed very well two big episodes from the book. I think they did it amazingly well, considering that TV has not such space to place all events in its proper order and time as they are told in the narration. The Hail Mary play, even tough it is not written in the books reflects how desperate was Jamie to try to avoid Culloden battle at all means. It also deliver a powerful and reflective message on historical events; can we change the past? Are those leaders we follow the appropriate ones?

  16. I don’t understand the perfunctory way Jamie and Claire are treating each other in the last few episodes, especially knowing their time together is short. They hardly touch or exchange any loving looks. I know they’re busy trying to stop or prepare to fight this battle, but sheesh! The complicated brother relationships was heartbreakingly played by Graham and Tobias. But, BJR beating his brother like that was incongruous with his love for him and beyond the pale.

  17. I keep waiting for Claire and Jamie to be intimate and connect but someone, writers/producers, seem to be avoiding it?!? Btw writers you’re so worried about setting the viewers up for what’s to come, did you forget she’s supposed to be pregnant by ep 13? I feel like they are trying to avoid the “romantic” genre so badly that they’re ruining the connection that we the book readers want the tv viewers to experience. This is why we love Claire and Jamie, they’re passion for each other outweighs all their trials and tribulations! It’s dumbfounding & makes me sad that the viewers are not seeing Diana’s Claire and Jamie!
    Otherwise, the storylines have been very creative and entertaining. LOVED the brotherly connections this week, very insightful & disturbing-JBR.
    And this is a random thought but you can totally tell who wrote each ep by how much it strays from the book (& the violence, Ira). So happy that Matt and Toni wrote the finale-whew!

  18. Absolutely loved this episode. It tied up some of the important story lines necessary to focus on the battle, Jamie and Claire in the finale episode. Loved the juxtaposition between the brothers: Colum and Dougal and Alex and Black Jack. Both sets understand the other and the love they have for each other is palpable. These relationships between men are rarely explored in stories and we loved them. We couldn’t understand how they would bring all these scenes to screen and they did it masterfully! Also, loved Murtagh in this episode as we have in all the others. Love that the writers expanded his role and wrote more dialog for him. God, it is going to be hard watching the show in the future without him. Maybe he lives in the television show. Fingers crossed.

  19. The episodes get better and better this season. Actually from ‘Faith’ on. I’m so impressed with the acting. Pretty much everybody is really wonderful. Though I must say Tobias is amazing to me. Scary and pathetic. Brilliant. I think, for the TV screen, pounding his brother worked. Poor devil. I want to add that I am completely devoted to the books (I’m finishing my third go around, halfway through ‘Heart’s Blood’) but there really is a difference between a book and a TV series. They are different forms. There have to be changes. It’s just a question of what choices are made. On the whole, I’m very impressed with the choices the writers have made. I applaud them. Anyway, I don’t think you can evaluate the show by comparing it to the book. You have to see if the episode holds together. Funny thing, I got onto the books after seeing the first episode of the first season. I never would have picked them up if I hadn’t seen it.

    • Same! have finished Voyager – read them all twice and obsessed – but only learned of the story via a friend who saw the show. I totally agree about the differences between book & TV, each are outstanding in their own right and weave the story more beautifully in my mind. The acting is spectacular, and sometimes things have to change to make the story visual.

  20. These last episodes have finally pulled this season together for me. Prestonpans was convincing, Diana’s episode sang with humor like the books and let Jaime express his love with his prayer and perhaps all this closure for other characters will let the last episode focus on Jaime and Claire. Both of the surviving brothers were the deeply selfish half of the pair, but Dougal held Column while Jack punished Alex for ‘betraying’ him by dying. We know Dougal will find someone else to punish.
    I was so disappointed last week when all of Rupert’s morbid lines about losing his eye were throw-aways. Could barely hear some of them. They were exactly what I heard while married to a SF soldier; if a man was hurt, specially if he caused it, immediately got a cruel nickname and constant outrageous jokes about it. He had to come back with worse ones. I think they were saying he still belonged, whether he could stay in the service or not. Angus was gone and Rupert had to do it all himself.

  21. All the scenes between BJ and Clare especially the one where BJ beats the shit out of his brothers corpse. That was shocking. I didn’t expect it

    Carrie Hinckley

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